Welcome to Media Hotshots, a series of interviews with some of the most celebrated Editors in lifestyle, fashion, beauty and interiors media today. All of the Editors interviewed in this series subscribe to PRShots and PressArea and the majority of those have said that heavily rely on its service in order to make their jobs easier, therefore the opportunity for you and your brands to gain more coverage into their pages is made all the more possible and this series of interviews is aimed at not only celebrating their lives, but to help provide you with some golden nuggets that if used, could make you a complete hero
(00:42) Nick: So welcome to this episode in which we’re interviewing Michelle Martin and discussing: -
(01:31) Nick: So without further ado, I’d like to welcome our third brilliant editor
Michelle Martin - Production Editor / Fashion and Beauty Editor for the Irish Daily Star and Star Chic magazine, which I understand is the biggest weekly newspaper magazine for women in Ireland is that right?
Michelle Martin: Yes it’s a free magazine that comes with The Star on a Saturday.
Nick: Wow what a great accolade! And with over 20 years experience in publishing (including 5 years as Senior Designer at Ireland's largest publishing agency Ashville Media Group), Michelle has worn a number of different hats over the years including layout designer, art director and journalist. She’s been with The Irish Daily Star for nearly 10 years now and covers all things fashion, beauty and interiors related, as well as managing the social media presence of Chic magazine.
So welcome and thank you!
(02:22) Michelle Martin: Thank you, thanks for having me on, a couple of nice little compliments there in the in the intro. I'll take that! “Celebrated” I'll take that.
And so you should do, it’s all well-deserved because there’s a lot of stuff that you do and we'll get to how you fit all of that into your daily life and daily routine, but the first question I always ask is right from the beginning is what was that journey like? Going from school to becoming Fashion & Beauty Editor of the of The Irish Daily Star?
(02:50) Michelle: I used to be a graphic designer at a fine arts college, so I came out from that angle, so I was studying Fine Arts, I was going to be a fine art print maker and then during the summer Holidays I got a job in a design studio being kind of the general office dogs body and by the end of the summer I was being trained up is a junior designer, so I kind of stuck with that rather than going back to the fine art. So that was the very end of the 90s and I worked for graphic media for three or four years. And then I went to Spain for a couple years where it's an El Sol, which I think you I guess what that was named after, and also Costa Life magazine. And then I came back here and started the job as Senior Designer at Ashville. And that's when I kind of specialized in magazine design and project management and doing a bit of writing and stuff like that. So yeah, it's kind of come out of that
(03:51) Nick: Wow, interesting that's brilliant, and so that's quite a journey as well…
(03:57) Michelle: Yeah, I'm still a layout designer like I still do the lay out of a magazine. I still do some lay out on the paper because we used to, inside the paper and the magazine, everything used to be a lot more delineated, like there were departments for different things, and now everybody does a bit of everything, kind of thing. So I would do the artwork, and I would do layout as well as doing the writing and editing and all that. So I don't get bored, I can say that.
(04:25) Nick: No, well yeah probably not got time to get bored at all actually.
Michelle: No, not much opportunity to get bored
Nick: So I mean so that’s interesting actually, because I always find that journey quite interesting. Did you ever not get involved in like the school newspaper or anything like that? Did you have anything like that?
(04:40) Michelle: When I grew up when I was a kid, I wanted to be either at Fashion Designer or a Newspaper Editor or Magazine Editor, so I haven't done too bad with that, but yeah, I had my first magazine when I was about 9. I’ve still got pictures somewhere of me and my staff from my first magazine when I was about 9, so yeah, I think I probably was always kind of destined to end up where I ended up
(05:03) Nick: That's brilliant. Who were your staff? Was that family members like your little sister and stuff like that?
(05:08) Michelle: Well my older sister, but I was the boss. So my older sister, and one of the girls next door, and one of the other girls who lived up the road. So it was the four of us and it was initially called Mac which is a crying shame that we never got the rights for that, or patented that. It was Michelle, Aoife and Cathy, and then we had Edelle join us, so then it turn to Mace. So it Michelle, Aoife, Cathy and Edelle. So I suppose you could say my experience goes back probably 30 years if you count that.
Nick: Definitely exactly is destiny, obviously it was going to be totally. But I guess that's obviously quite a long time as well. What's changed since then, apart from the obvious things like email etc. What's changed with regards to editing and your job in general?
(05:53) Michelle: Well, like I think it's weird to even think about it now, like when we wanted information on something, you have to find a landline number, call somebody asking the questions, and then write down their answers. It's crazy to think that we used to have to go to those lengths just to get information, but just so kind of at the end of our fingertips now, but yeah, it's stuff like that. It's how easy it is to get information on things now. How easy it is to get pictures and all that, like I was just thinking; in the design studio where I first started out, when you wanted a stock picture, we’d have these big folders of CDs and the printouts of all the images that run the CDs, and that's how you found the stock pic that you want to use. You flipped through this thing, physically, flip through it, and then found the CD that correlates with it and put that in. To think we used to have to go to those lengths. And even with the likes of Photoshop, obviously like I've been working on that with Photoshop for 20 something years, but like used to if you were saving a file, you do whatever you want to do with the file, and then when you're done with it, and hit ‘save’, and then you go out for a walk or you go and make yourself a cup of tea, 'cause that thing was gonna take at least 10 or 15 minutes to save, and now everything is ‘just like that’, and your phone's just got everything, so it's crazy. Great, but crazy.
Nick: Yes, of course. And I guess it does, it gives you instant access to everything, but I guess there's probably other problems, in that you are constantly working all the time maybe? I don't know whether you feel that?
(07:22) Michelle: There is that, but I think with print media, the internet obviously has not been a friend to the print media, like everybody seemed to kind of go “Right, we're going to put all of our advertising spends on websites”, and then that didn’t really kind of work for them, and then companies just decided to stop advertising as much at all. So it wasn't the best thing that ever happened to print publications, but we're still going!
Nick: No, yeah, totally. And do you do you handle the online as well as the within the print media or do you, or is that given somebody else?
(07:55) Michelle: Well, our online arm is Buzz.ie, so I was trying to kind of get a Chic presence on Buzz.ie, but I just didn't have the time, like that’s a job within itself. So I was able to get some stuff up, but wasn’t something I could keep up long term, and they have their own staff anyway for that kind of thing, it's just we wanted to kind of try and have an online presence for Chic as well but we’re only a team of three so there’s only so much we can do.
Nick: Yeah, of course. So is that is that your team? You've got a team of three have you?
(08:27) Michelle: Yeah, it's just the three of us, so it's Rachel Beresford the Editor, and there's Naomi McElroy, which I don't know if you know, she's a character so a lot of people know Naomi, and she does all of our interviews, all of our celebrity features, and then obviously I look after Fashion, Beauty, Interiors and the layout
Nick: Wow, what a great job interviewing all the celebrities! That's just an awesome job, isn't it? Blimey.
(08:49) Michelle: Yeah, she is good craic with all that, alright!
Nick: Well I'm jealous!
…and writing celebrity features as well. Because since lock down there haven't been as many people available for interviews because nobody is promoting their play or their new show or whatever else. And so we've been kind of concentrating more on just kind of gossipy celebrity features and yeah she's having a whale of a time with it
Nick: Brilliant, ok that's awesome. So that's interesting as well. so you've got a team of three. How have things changed? I mean obviously things have changed over the years, but with COVID? We’ve noticed a lot of changes, how are things changed personally for you and your team?
(09:32) Michelle: Well, a lot of places would be kind of well equipped for letting people work from home, and would be very flexible with people working home and stuff, but I don't think The Star would be alone in this, I think it's probably a newspaper, especially tabloid newspaper kind of thing. Nobody works from home, because the whole thing is supposed to be; you’ve got a buzzing news floor, everybody is able to shout questions across to each other, and that atmosphere is part of what makes a good newspaper and all that, so I was quite shocked when we went from everybody in the office, everybody has to be in the office all the time, to like, overnight, everybody is working remotely and it's ticking along. It's there's been, touch wood; no major hiccups or any major problems really. So yeah, everybody’s just in their own houses doing their own thing? Like I was saying to you earlier; we try to have group chats, that the three of us, we WhatsApp each other constantly, obviously, but we try to meet up a couple of times just to see each other in person and kind of catch up with each other and stuff. We've done that a few times as well, but yeah, it's all ticking alone, shockingly enough. I thought there would be a lot more teething problems with this, but no, everything seems to be going quite well. It's just boring, isn't it?
Nick: Yeah! Well totally, blimey! That’s the thing! I think people can certainly notice that you haven't spoken somewhere for a little while, when I’m like a little lapdog sometimes! I’m like “oh my God, just carry on talking please, brilliant!”
(11:08) Michelle: Yeah exactly, like when I did meet the two girls off the team the last time, I think we were having lunch and we were planning on being there for an hour and we ended by talking for four and a half, we just had so much stuff that we needed to get out
Nick: Yeah, totally. So it hasn't really affected the structure and the way that you do things generally, as in your daily roles, or has that?
(11:27) Michelle: No. The way we've got it set up is that we’re are logged in remotely to the system. So we're still on the same system. I'm still on same system as the paper and all that, it's just I'm doing it through my Mac at home, and I like say we’re on WhatsApp with all the girls and everything. And yeah, it's just little things like not being able to bounce ideas off each other, because sometimes there’s a question that isn't big enough that you're going to put it out to the group on WhatsApp, but it’s the thinking out loud stuff your missing aren’t you!? It’s just the chance to get feedback on that stuff from the people. But if that's the worst complaint that we can come out with, then that's not too bad.
Nick: No, exactly you're doing alright. Yeah totally! But it’s interesting to understand your structure as well. So how does it work? You've got a team of three; how does it work when you have a meeting? Do you have to come up with all of the ideas? Or is it a team effort? Or how does that process work?
(12:31) Michelle: Generally the Editor and Naomi would come up with who they're gonna write about; what interviews they have lined up, and what celebrity features they’re going to do, but from my end, for the Fashion and Beauty and the Interiors, I'd be generally coming up with the ideas myself every week. Maybe once or twice now that I'd be completely blank and I might ask the girls if they’ve got any ideas for this week, but generally no, it’s just be me coming up with the idea and then run with it.
Nick: Wow, that's amazing, that's quite a big remit as well to handle all of the Beauty, the Fashion and the Interiors as well all yourself, that's a lot to undertake!
(13:09) Michelle: It's a busy week, and as well, because we work to a weekly deadline, and it's weird sometimes, when I do the odd shift on the paper, because you forget how crazy it is to have a daily deadline, but a weekly deadline is tight enough as it is, so you don't really have any wiggle room, like, if it is on a monthly title, when I've worked on monthly magazines, you can have whatever weeks, and crazier weeks towards the end when you're near the publication and stuff, but when it’s a weekly thing, it’s just, every week is quite hectic, but a good craic. But talking about crazy things, you know there's a lot worse things to be writing about, you know?
Nick: You’re right exactly, but that that's a good question as well, of course, because you've got a daily lead time, and you’ve got a weekly lead time. How do you manage that? And what are the lead times for the weeklies? When do you go to print for Chic.
(14:03) Michelle: So we go to print on a Friday for the magazine that is going to be out, not the next day, not the next Saturday, but the following Saturday. So our lead time is essentially 8 to 9 days. So say for instance next week I'll be working on our Halloween issue, so that will be our October 24th issue, so I'll be working on that next week. So that would lead time on the magazine, and then on the paper, if it's anything that brand wants to get in the following day into the paper, it kind of has to be in by two or three, and there is a daily conference for the paper where they decide what content goes into the paper. So if say a brand has an event on, or they want something that they want in the news section of the paper, if they want to get that in for two or three, sent to the picture desk or whatever, then it can be included in the conference, and it might get in. But as far as my Fashion and Beauty content for the paper, I work on that the previous week, so there's 3, 4 days lead time then on that.
Usually if a brand wants to get something in, and it's a particular date they have in mind, I can usually either fit them between Chic, the paper, or worst case scenario, put something up on Buzz, so I can usually accommodate whatever the timing is, but, for their sake, it's probably easier if they wanted in the magazine, a week and a half before at their discretion
Nick: Yeah, OK, well that's good. And with regards to the process I was talking about before, because you've got such a huge remit, I guess you know, for you to come up with ideas constantly - I'm wondering what the possibilities are for the brands to actually influence you, to give you ideas?
(15:51) Michelle: That is the thing. I love it when a brand sends in something themed, like at the start of the lockdown DFS sent me a mailer with animal prints, sofas and all that kind of stuff in a Tiger King themed thing, and so I completely robbed that as a theme and had a Tiger King themed interior page. So if any brands can see a trend, can see a theme in their latest campaign shots or their product shots, and if they can see a theme, even if it's just like the color red, like Primark did that recently and I robbed that for my fashion pages, so thank you for that Primark!
So if you see any kind of theme, then like make a folder with it, tag it all with that stuff and send out a mailer and that makes my life an awful lot easier because I'll see and go “perfect! That would be perfectly for Fashion or for interiors or whatever. If brands or PR can see something coming through, a trend, then that's a great idea. Put it all together, tag it, and then send it as a mailer, it’s great. And if they can then come up with a funny headline even better.
Nick: Even better blimey! Yeah, the whole no jobs done exactly. I guess anything that makes your life easier, makes their life easier, and then it gets coverage as well; everyone's a winner!
(17:14) Michelle: Yeah, exactly! So any kind of theme like that, like even this week in interiors, the Hygge cosy stuff, for making your home cosier for the winter and stuff like that, and puns like ‘The Snuggle Is Real’. So any silly puns like that, yeah, send them at me, because I'll take it as my own where I can get the ground for it so I'm all over it.
Nick: That's brilliant! And again, with regards to the processes; if you see a trend that's happening, will you go to certain brands that you particularly like that you will go to in order to see whether they’re covering certain things? Are you more influenced by the theme? Or the brand? Or how does that work?
(18:02) Michelle: Well, like I will generally go onto PRShots at the start of the week when I'm trying to decide what I'm going to cover because it's all well and good for me to kind of go “Ok, I like navy velvet, and I'm gonna have a navy velvet interior page" if I can’t find pretty lifestyle pictures to go with that, then that's just gonna be a nightmare for me for the week, so I’ll usually go onto PRShots and there's a couple of people that do fantastic interiors shots; Next do great ones; DFS do great ones, Cult Furniture and Amara. So I'll go on there and if I can find a couple of ones from there that fit the same theme, I’ll generally trying to build it off that. So it's a great place to go to try and figure out what I am going to do for the week, and fashion there is the same as well.
(18:56) Nick: OK, brilliant, well that's good, and I love all the brands that you're talking about there so that's good. So what, considering we are talking about PRShots now, is there anything a that you're looking for at the moment? Or is there anything that brands, without naming them, do that you don't particularly like? Or things that you want them to do that they don't necessarily do? That’s about 3 questions there, sorry, confusing the whole matter.
Michelle: What was the question again?
Nick: I can’t remember what that was actually, I've lost myself, but I guess is there anything at the moment? You're talking about Halloween next week…
(19:33) Michelle: So like I was saying and we are doing our Halloween issue for October 24th, so I'll be working on that kind of tomorrow and early next week. So I'll be doing a page of Halloween interiors, so it’ll all just be decorations. I know that's people aren't allowed to be trick or treating this year and they're not allowed parties and all that, but I still think families are gonna like try and have a bit of craic at home and do up the houses and everything. So yeah, interiors, Halloween decorations and all that kind of thing, and costumes for all the family. And then for beauty I'm gonna do makeup looks for Halloween and stuff. So if any of the brands have anything like that, along those lines they want to lash across; fantastic! And then we are working on our Christmas gift guides really early this year, because we just, talking to everybody, and everybody’s friends and stuff, they’re all saying that they’ve got their presents already bought and everybody seems to be going “now it’s just a blowout, let’s just focus on Christmas, go gung-ho for Christmas”; so we’re looking at doing our gift guides, kind of mid-November, when we’d normally do them end of November. And then do another gift guide in December, which will be a bit more of a last minute kind of one. So those would be the two big projects we'll be working on; Halloween issue, and then the Christmas gift guides. So yeah, it's like, ideally either a Dropbox folder or a PRshots category with that, and then an email saying ‘this is where all of our Halloween or Christmas themed stuff is. Ooh we're doing as well, an 8 page pull out for Christmas interiors as well, so I'm going all I was on that. So all the decorations on the trees and all that kind of stuff. So I'm gonna do a couple of different themes and stuff like that within it. So if they want to send me over anything like that, I'll be working on that at the start of November.
Nick: OK, brilliant excellent! And is there anything on PRShots or just in general that PRs do or don’t do, that you’d like them to do?
(21:55) Michelle: Well having the Euro prices as well as the sterling price is always great. Because it just means I don't have to keep chasing after stuff. I’ve I got a big folder of fabulous Christmas decorations and everything, off of a brand, that I won't name and I thought “this fantastic! All these pictures are gorgeous and everything, and it was only then realized they didn't have any product info or any price at all, it was just the pictures, and so I'm definitely going to use some of them, there's just an extra step for me to have to chase after them. So not sending hi-res images, and not giving Euro prices as well as Sterling prices, I’d rather that didn't happen as much. Well, talking about the gift guides as well, so the WeTransfers are great and so I'm not dissing them in or anything but one of the things that could be a nightmare for, especially if we’re working ahead of time is you put all these emails into folders for the Christmas gift guide and then all the WeTransfer links have all expired. So hence the reason why something like Dropbox or PRShots is better because it just means that they'll still be there when I go to look for them a month later.
Nick: Yeah totally. So the prices are preferrable, but not necessarily; if you're gonna use it anyway, you’ll ask for the prices I guess?
(23:20) Michelle: Yeah, I will chase after the prices and everything. It's just that if I'm looking for something last minute; I won't go for something that doesn't have a price, I’ll just put something that does have a price. So just to make it more likely to get your things included would be to have both prices preferably. And the campaign shots, as well as product shots too are great, because I would use both of them on a weekly basis. I've got a big Fashion spread in the paper, with Beauty down the side and that's all gorgeous campaign imagery, and then my Fashion in the magazine is usually cut outs and it's outfits put together and stuff like that, so we use both forums so I know it's obviously more expensive for the brands to do two sets of shots, but it is really handy for us to have both and more likely to use as well.
Nick: Yeah, OK, that's interesting, because what we noticed during lockdown was that there was a lot more call from editors for getting actual in situ images rather than cut outs, and I'm assuming that's because people couldn't get out in order to put the images out there…
(24:30) Michelle: I was genuinely getting worried there for a while, there was a few weeks there where there was no new campaigns being shot, and you can understand that, you don’t want anybody risking their health or anything, but there was nothing new being shot and, I had the seven pages to fill every week, and there's only so much you can write about lounge pants as well, so I was kind of going like “if this keeps continuing on like we're going to be having fashion pages with me wearing stuff that I've taken with my iPhone” do you know what I mean? And we won't have any content to put it here, but it seems like everything’s picking back up again now I think. I've gotten so many campaigns now for Autumn / Winter that I've got all that content lined up for weeks now, so that's great, that's a big relief.
Nick: Yeah, it's interesting. I found that quite an interesting period as well because one of the big things is that there was a lot of PR's that were put on furlough during that period and I'm thinking the whole communication process, for anybody that was still in work, actually had their work cut out because you just literally needed to send anything through, and I guess all the Editors would be using anything because there was such little about, it's crazy.
(25:38) Michelle: And it was such a weird thing as well because we were trying to judge, like obviously at the very start it would have felt very strange to be doing features on going out dresses and things like that, so we we're kind of going “ok, so loungewear is kind of where everybody’s at, and pyjamas and stuff”, but then we were going, “OK, have we reached peak saturation of lounge pants yet? Are we able to go back to normal fashion again?” So it was relief when we were able to just go back. I didn't get that either like why so many PRs were put on furlough, because surely it’s a job that can be done remotely as much as mine could, or anybody else’s could!? So it was a shame for brands to do that, but I suppose everybody is just looking at their money they bring in I suppose.
Nick: The bottom line, yeah exactly. I think everyone was quite unaware, so I think now, if anything was to happen again, I think the learnings are that actually these people will be kept on because it makes absolute sense anyway.
Michelle: Yeah, I hope so. I hope so.
(26:40) Nick: That's another interesting question as well because some of the Editors have actually said to me that some of the imagery that's being sent needs to be kind of more reflective of the times without, without necessarily having people with masks for fashion shoots, but you know, even just like crowds, for example, are a big no no, because people can't do that; is that something you're looking for as well? Are you looking for things to reflect the times? Or does that not necessarily matter for you?
Michelle: I hadn’t actually thought that but you’re dead right it actually does. The end of the campaign stuff that I've done lately is one person or two people at a time, there's no big group shots anymore. I haven't actually thought of that. I don't know whether brands doing shoots with masks and things like that is entirely necessary or not, because in a way, it kind of takes me out of something if I see a model in a campaign wearing a mask, because it makes you realize that things are not all normal as is, and fashion is always supposed to be a fantasy anyway, you know, so I don't know if they necessarily need to include masks in all the shoots. And just what people are buying as well at the moments because they're buying more staple pieces, they’re spending more money on staple pieces and they’re spending less money on going out clothes, because where are you going out to? So I suppose brands shoots should probably reflect that. I'm looking forward to all the big campaign party shoot for Christmas and everything, but at the moment I'd say just more staples.
(28:37) Nick: With the times changing, lots of Editors liked to be schmoozed in the past, not that it was a necessary thing, but it's always nice to be taken out and all that kind of stuff. I guess everything's changed now, so how does someone schmooze you, in the current circumstances? How does someone get you to notice them to get coverage?
(28:59) Michelle: Well the virtual events that we've had over the last couple of months, some of them have been really fun. I think it's a good opportunity for any PR or brand to get a little bit creative with what they do for the virtual events because you can just like dial into the webinar web when they're telling you about a new product or anything like that, but we had, Iceland, the shop not the country, did a cook-along thing with a chef, and they sent a load of Editors out the food and they were cooking along while the chef told them what to do. We had an afternoon tea thing, and there was another brand where we painted canvases together, and so there's definitely ways to kind of make what normally would have been a chance to show off the product, and have everybody around, and the PRs get to have a bit of a chat with everybody and stuff like that. We can't really do that, but there's ways to make the events a bit more interactive and involve people a little bit more than just putting on a webinar.
(30:14) Nick: I know some Editors have said to me that actually some people like it when they've actually kind of almost been researched because it kind of massages their ego a little bit, but others are just like it feels a bit creepy when they kind of know a little bit more about me than they probably should.
Oh I’ll tell you the creepiest, and I really hope the PRs behind this doesn’t hear this call! Our previous Fashion Editor Selena was sent a personalized snow globe, but the two pictures in the snow globe were out of her personal folder on her Twitter. They weren't pictures that were on her LinkedIn or any work related things or anything like that, they were off her personal Twitter. And they obviously thought that this would be a really thoughtful and personalized gift, and it was but it was just freaky. And plus Selena was thinking “why do I want my own face on a snow globe anyway?”
Nick: Yeah, you're right, I could just imagine the creepy music being played in the background or something, that is quite creepy. Well, that's madness.
Michelle: I don't mind when a PR sends “Hi Michelle” and they are specifically pitching you something, and I also don't really mind the group email, because I would use that when I'm sending out our features list to all my contacts so yeah, I don't mind it too much.
(31:40) Nick: No, ok! What's the best pitch that you've ever had? If you can remember, one that’s made you go “Wow that's just amazing! They've got me. You had me at hello!”?
I don’t know actually. I really couldn't think of anybody off hand. Like I said, there’s been a couple of nice pitches since lock down, which I thought were good because they were rolling with the punches and they were obviously off the cuff. They couldn't have seen it and planned in advance, but say, La Roche-Posay sent out a little personalised Herb Garden at the start of all this, and it was branded and all that, so that's out on my balcony and kept the brand in my mind for all the Beauty features that I worked on while I kept the herbs alive, which wasn’t very long. I'd like to say that DFS coming up with the quirky kind of theme and the poem headline for me and all that kind of stuff. So stuff like that would work really well for me.
(32:42) Nick: Yeah brilliant. With regards to the stuff that you're seeing with trends at the moment. Is there anything that you are predicting are going to happen? Do have the space to predict that kind of stuff?
Michelle: Well as far as the way we're all gonna work or do you mean Fashion and Beauty?
Nick: I mean both actually. I was going to say if you were going to answer the Fashion and Beauty, I was then going to say for the industry too
(33:17) Michelle: With the industry, I think we're just gonna have to get used to the fact that it's going to be virtual events and even Zoom chats with brands, and things like that and and even smaller Zoom chats as opposed to big event webinars. If brands want, just like I have a chat with you one on one, or a couple of people with their latest product or whatever, I think we're just going have to adapt in that way because we're all going to be working from home until at least next spring, and even after that, workplaces are probably going to have to be a bit more flexible once we're all back, so all of us being back five days a week in the office is probably unlikely. So I think that's going to be the future of like how the media is going to work, and how brands and PRs can deal with us and we'll deal with them for the foreseeable, all over Zoom in virtual and trying to get a bit creative about events and making them as interactive as possible and stuff like that. So that’s as far as the industry is concerned, and as far as Fashion, Beauty is concerned Fashion was, especially with designer fashion; every designer was making at least four collections every year, and it was just getting a bit out of control. So I think this will be a huge change now towards more sustainable stuff and people investing in things rather than fast fashion. There's always going to be a place for fast fashion, but I think this will be more of a trend towards more sustainable stuff. Because if you spend £200 you will re-wear that and re-wear and it's not going to end up in a landfill after one wear, even if you don't wear it yourself, you're going to sell it on, or you’re going to bring it to a charity shop or whatever, so I think that's going to be unsustainable and that’s definitely something that's going to be bigger and beauty will be the same to like vegan, sustainable stuff. Like all of those big buzzwords this year and I think into next year like we'll be looking at all of the beauty brands, we’ll be looking at reducing their plastic and reducing their waste and all that. So I think that's two things will be looking at now for next year.
(35:47) Nick: Wow, that's awesome. Well, it’s moving with the times as well, especially as the UK’s Prime Minister has just said, without getting political, but they're looking into now becoming really green And it's interesting what you say there as well because Lynda Bell from Red and Prima said that regards to fashion, it’s just expected now, it shouldn't even be a trend - sustainability is something which she would almost expect, and if it isn't she almost won't cover it!
(36:59) Michelle: Yeah, yeah, it's really important. So sustainability and vegan stuff would be two kind of things that I'll be keeping an eye out and it were always more likely to feature if it's something like that. And then and it's small businesses as well, because you’d just be so worried about small label and small boutique and the effect that all of this is gonna have on them, and all the big franchises are gonna be fine, but the smaller labels and the smaller brands you want to try and make sure you feature them as much as possible so that they get a bit more of a chance of hang in there.
Nick: Absolutely! I guess one of my last questions is, in the current circumstances, and regarding deadlines; how reliant are you on PRShots and other means?
(37:12) Michelle: Well I probably wouldn't go a day where I wouldn't go onto PRShots for something, because I do the artwork as well, there isn't somebody on the art desk or the picture desk just getting pictures for me, so I'm getting my pictures for myself and all that. So yeah I would use it most days and I'm so much more likely to use something from a brand when I can just go onto PRShots and they've got the high res pictures, they’ve got lifestyle pictures, product shots, and they’ve got the prices for me. Like I'm much more likely to use that because there's no back and forth. I just literally go on to that one place, get the things I need and then I’m out to go with it. So I just didn't know, and had no idea who Cult Furniture or Amara were before I started doing my interior page and now they're on it most weeks because they’re on PRShots and I'm able to get their lovely lifestyle images for there. So yeah I'd be lost without it!
(38:15) Nick: Yeah, ok brilliant! Thumbs up then! We love that yeah. And it wasn't just to promote what we're doing, but just to impress upon those that are listening how much they need to upload stuff onto there as quickly as possible, because regarding PRShots, some of the feedback we get is regarding prices not being up, but also old content of products that are no longer available still being up, is that something you’ve experienced too?
Michelle: Oh yeah, yeah! Once I do decide on a theme for Fashion or Interiors, and that’s again one of the handy things for PRShots: I can just search for a term. And then you end up finding all these grand images, and then you realise that they were uploaded in 2018 or whatever, so you can’t use them anymore. So yeah, to keep it curated would be great!
(39:16) Nick: OK brilliant. And then I guess my final question is; I know we’ve talked about it briefly, but can name 3 things that PR's do that is a big no no for you? And 3 things that PR's do that are just big thumbs up?
(39:32) Michelle: OK, so I’ll start with the criticism first: - When any PR sends out an email and then follows it up with another email, that says “I'm just checking to see that you got my last email” and you're like “there's nothing wrong with my email systems, but just assume that I did”. Because whatever it is, whether it's a product or it's a new campaign or whatever, I could easily use it, but I'm not going to get back to everybody who I mentioned in the magazine and let them know “Well, I took one of your pictures and it's one of the 20 pictures that are on the Fashion pages”. I'm not going to get back to everyone that I do feature, and if I'm not going to feature it because I either don't have space or it isn't suitable, or for whatever reason - I'm not going to go back and tell every PR that I'm not using that either. So sending a few emails about the one thing is a bit of a no, no. I actually got a few of them this week, which I thought was gas and there was about this handbag range, and I hadn't heard of the brand now, but they sent an email about this exciting new handbag range, and I'm actually doing bags on this week's fashion anyway, so that was great - but no pictures!!?? No pictures. No high-res. An email saying how fabulous the bags are and everything, but no images at all, so that wouldn't be great, because the problem is then is that I could email back and say “sorry I might use them, I might not, but I need to see what it looks like first”, and they can send the images back, but then they will come after me asking “did you use that picture?”, and what if the handbags aren't nice? If you are talking about a beauty product or a fashion line or anything visual at all, you need to include images, instead of just, you know, describing it in text, and obviously Euro prices. There’s a particular brand, again, I won’t name names, that has the wordiest press releases, like we were talking about scrolling 3 times, and it's saying the same thing just in more grandiose language every sentence. And you're reading through it and you're trying to just get to the salient points, because you just want to know, that this mascara does this, this and this and the ingredients that are in it, and it's just pages and pages. So some sort of elevator pitch at the start of email is always great because then I can either just use that, or else that will just tell me what the content is immediately and then obviously I can kind of read up more on it. But yet pages and pages of superlatives about the product and everything, isn't necessarily all that useful for my end. Oh ok, I asked the two girls in the office before doing this, and asked if there was anything that they wanted to get in. One of the things that we kind of laugh about is when stuff arrives from a PR agency: the balloon in a box!!?? A lot of balloons in boxes! So we only got one quite recently and it was a new product. So there was a couple of bottles, but what arrived was a box this big, with ‘fragile’ across the side. So I'm coming up the stairs, thinking “what on earth is this?” I opened it up and it's a balloon and two bottles product at the bottom of the box. So that's not necessary; you don't need the balloons! So balloons, and I have noticed a lot of PRs are doing a bang up job with it, but this is same with packaging. So like obviously when they're sending out products, they may want to make sure that it arrives on one piece and everything, but sometimes again you were getting like a giant, giant box and all of this non-recyclable packaging and stuff, and you feel terrible about it. Now like I say, I've seen it a lot recently where they have it marked all over with little styrofoam balls that they can recycle and everything, so that's something, but make sure that it's not ruining our planet to send me two bottles of tan, or whatever you know. And that's come from Rachel and Naomi
(44:37) Nick: Yeah ok, well that's brilliant! It’s showing how much it’s entering the psyche., so that’s all good stuff. But going back to your images as well, because that's an interesting point that Paula Moore brought up as well for Woman’s Own, she was saying even if you had the images in there, if you could actually include them within the body of the email itself so you can see it before clicking into it. Does that make a difference for you or is that not necessary?
(45:01) Nick: Yeah that's a great one! Ideally like you can embed, or just attach a couple of low-res’s of the pictures, and then link to images at some point in the email, and that's ideal! Because again, going back to WeTransfer; when it first came in was like the height of technology, we were chuffed with this thing when it first came in. But the whole thing with it is that half the time I don't know what I'm downloading – so it could be a half a gigabyte worth of space on my machine and it could be not at all suitable for anything I'm working on. So at least if it's a Dropbox or it's PRShots folder, I can just go in and see what the pictures are rather downloading and taking up space on my downloads.
(45:49) Nick: Ok, good! Again, coming back to your other point about getting to the point rather than it being a wordy piece of content. I think it was Julie Player who was saying she quite likes it when she's almost given a story, because it's a bit more creative, but at the at the end of the day get to the point as well rather than it being too much, so perhaps they're trying a bit too hard to be creative
(46:14) Michelle: Yeah, from the story perspective, it is good when it's like a new brand or something and there is a story behind it. Like there’s a brand that we had in Beauty recently and it was: Boyfriend and girlfriend set up, and they started it and then the lockdown hit, and they still managed to get it out there. So their story was kind of relevant to the product's and stuff, but I think that only really matters when it's like a start up really.
(46:43) Nick: Yeah ok, that’s good to know. So that's the 3 No, no’s! What are the three big thumbs up that brands do that you absolutely love?
(46:52) Michelle: The big one is just big gorgeous shoots, you know, like just really colorful like. I would love the high fashion kind of stuff, but unfortunately The Star is not really pitched at that kind of audience, but yeah, just big, colorful, beautiful shoots - that's my the best thing about it. Colourful is probably the big thing that I look out for whenever I'm looking to choose what pictures I'm going to use for the fashion spread in the paper because, it's a small petty thing, but some magazines are printed on white paper, whereas newspaper’s a news print, so it's not actually white, it's grey, and so the more colorful something is… If something isn't very colourful, it doesn't really work on the newspaper as well, because it doesn’t bounce off the page, so the more colorful it is, the better it works in newspaper. So yeah, big beautiful images first for all. Always having the two prices is fab (sterling and euro). A little bit of an elevator pitch. Bullet points, you know – I love a good bullet point when it comes to condensing what exactly the message is, that the mail is trying to get across.
And yeah, like I say, coming up with themes: - both Penneys and Littlewoods are both great at this; they'll make a folder with whatever the trend is, whatever the theme is, and then they’ll send it in the mail with, Littlewoods has ‘Look of the Week’, and they will have a folder with those theme’s images in it, and sometimes, some weeks that just takes a lot of work off my hands because I can just go “right, there's a themes to do”, “that would be perfect for that”, and there's a folder already there with some pics to use. So any themes or trends the brands see, if they want to make a separate folder and send a mailer out – perfect!
(48:56) Nick: Brilliant excellent OK perfect! You mentioned Penneys and and Littlewoods there, are there any brands that you absolutely love? And are there any brands that you love that you would love to get more information from?
(49:13) Michelle: Penneys and Littlewoods I would have all the time. Littlewoods actually did an interesting thing, and I thought this was gonna end up being the way that photo shoots worked for the foreseeable. Early on in lockdown they had a collection with Michelle Keegan, one of their new collections, and because it was right in middle of lockdown, she obviously had a friend whoever it was, taking them, so it wasn't professionally shot, it wasn't fresh new styles or anything, and I thought that was really interesting at the time. I was thinking “this is the future. If we can't have photo shoots and we can't have a team of makeup artist and everything; this is the way that it's gonna look!”, but obviously then restrictions eased a little bit and we were able to kind of work around it. But it was obviously Penneys, and they’re great and I would use their content an awful lot. Topshop is an awkward one! Arcadia who look after them aren't very forthcoming, and the problem seems to be that like staff changes, the turnover changes so much. Like, basically how many staff I've dealt with in Arcadia… you just deal with a different person every time and you're not getting regular emails often, press emails often at all. So you could see some gorgeous campaign on their site, and then you would have to go through three different emails that are all bouncing back at you saying “this person doesn't work here anymore” before you find somebody in Arcadia who will send you out the high-res images. So yeah, it's not ideal for that kind of thing. I can't think of anybody now that I would like to see, but Topshop would be great, it would be very handy. And even Zara and Inditex that look after Zara now are a bit better and they were better for getting high res images off, but, if they were on something like PRShots, it would be easier to search for them, and if I'm doing a fashion spread on like beige and then at least their images are coming up for that rather than be separately having to go on to their website and search for it. So yeah, that would be great.
(51:30) Nick: OK, brilliant, that's all good. That's all good news as well. What is the actual demographic or the ABC for The Daily Star? And obviously then for Chic?
(51:45) Michelle: Right, so for The Daily Star an I'm not entirely sure I believe this, but it's a 40/60% in favour of men. I would definitely have thought the readership of The Star was a lot more male based but, the official figures are that it's 60/40 in favour of men. My content obviously is aimed at the female readers anyway. And then for Chic; we're 90% women, and I know that because I actually have all the statistics off of our socials – so 90% women, 10% men and it's 25-44, leaning towards the latter half of that, so like 30 to 44. So that's what Chic is aimed at, and there's probably a slight difference in tone for the paper versus the magazine. The paper is a little bit more, the copy needs to be a little bit more flashy and then Chic is a little bit more aimed at women.
Nick: OK, brilliant! What is the readership for Chic magazine? I think I read it was about 1/4 of a million is that right? It’s probably increased a little bit because that was a little while ago now.
(53:01) Michelle: I'm actually not sure what and the daily figures are now, but at one point we were 80,000 on a Saturday, and so that's just the number of copies sold now, that's not readership circulation. I don't know what we're down to now though post COVID or and everything, but we have a strong readership. The magazine, and the numbers the paper sell during the week, there’s always a big boost at the weekend because of the magazine, so we're happy with that.
(53:35) Nick: Yeah OK, brilliant! Is there anything else that you'd like to add? Obviously your other colleagues had their points to make as well, is there anything that you would like to add?
(53:45) Michelle: Naomi is a particularly eco-warrior, and so hers was definitely the recycling. I think I've covered everything but just for the Halloween stuff next week, if anybody wants to send me anything to do with that, and if anybody listen has doesn't have me on their press list add michelle.martin@thestar.ie, and any gift guidy stuff, any Christmas-led stuff and everything and we got an email address as well as me, so I look after the Fashion, Beauty and Interior, the homeware kind of gifts, and then Naomi looks after the more generic; His, Hers, Kids kind of gifts, and so if anybody has any content they want to go into the gift guide if they send it to me but also christmas@thestar.ie as well
Nick: I want to thank you so much for your time and if you need you need anything just let us know. And yeah, I want to thank those that have joined us for this call as well. So brilliant! Thank you! I wish you a great Halloween, and I hope you get lots of content for Halloween, and a great Christmas obviously
Michelle: Thanks for having me – talk to you soon, bye!